| and you continue to beat me to death. Perhaps we can let the forum help mediate the outcome?
Mamdouh,
Let me step through the emails one at a time to show you what I am seeing on my end. These are ‘cliffnotes’ of each of the email exchanges between you and I. Jan 13: Your initial request for a 450cc injector program. I replied to tell you I could put together 3 prototype programs for you to dyno and provide that info to me for a final program tune. Paypal the funds and I would ship them. You asked about what other parts you may need
I replied suggesting hoses and gaskets, etc. Jan 14th: Received payment from you, emailed that the three programs were done and for you to dyno each of them. You replied to ask me to describe the differences between them as well as what kind of results you should be looking for.
My reply answered these details as well as made further recommendations to ensure your car was prepared for the dyno session. You replied to me due to a post on tt.net asking for clarification of what I stated. You were concerned about the programming due to misunderstanding what was said. I replied to ensure you that the program was mathematically derived to provide us with a good starting point and that one of the three different programs would likely put us right where we wanted to be. Jan 17th: The package did not arrive to you. I researched it to find that it was sent to your old address. I suggested that you go to your old address to pick it up, but then I contacted UPS to have them re-route the package to your new address. I apologized for the mix-up. You accepted the apology and asked if it were a good idea to run the JWT 370cc program with the 450cc injectors. I replied and suggested that it would run rich and that you shouldn’t run the car in boost. Jan 18th: You had requested boost jets along with the programs, which I did not include. I suggested places to get the boost jets from and the sizes you needed to get. Jan 20th: You asked about several specifics of my programs; AIV delete, PRVR, CA or non-CA spec, and questioned the safety of my programs. I replied to your answers and reinforced once again the importance of going to the dyno. Feb 3rd: You received the replacement chips as the original package got lost. The package showed up late due to shipping latencies out of my control. You asked about Getting an AFC, and complained that I did not communicate with you. I replied to save your money and don’t buy an AFC. I reinforced that you take the car to a dyno and that we could produce an optimal tune from that information. Later this day you sent an email thanking for the advice and that you would be taking the car to the dyno and send me the info for final tuning. You also stated t that you got a chance to drive the car hard for the first time with the new chip and raved about how well it ran; “pulls great, no detonation, idles well.” I replied that I look forward to the dyno results. 6 minutes after my reply, I sent yet another email making a ‘safe suggestion to not run the car hard until you ensure that A/F is correct.” I sent this because it occurred to me that you said you ‘ran it hard for the 1st time….” You replied a little later that evening that you are running low boost and you will schedule a dyno session ASAP. You expressed how well the car was running and asked about the old chips and if they were located. I replied “glad things are going well” and stated the chips were lost. Feb 8th: You sent an update on your car talking about how it seemed to be ‘silently backfiring’ and that you weren’t going to a dyno for another 2 weeks. You said, “So now I try not to push too much on the gas and not to go to WOT to avoid that problem.” You also stated that your aux fan was coming on and stated your temptation to put in the richer #3 program. I replied on the same day in less than an hour that you should put #3 in. Feb 11th: You emailed again about the same problem, but a slight variation of it which included white smoke from the tailpipe and a lot of missing coolant. You complained that I didn’t offer any advice and that you were going to ask the forum. I replied stating that I did recommend to put in chip #3 to be safe. I answered about the missing coolant and overheating of the engine which causes warpage of t the heads and will lead to the headgasket blowing. I recommended that you have a coolant system leak. 3 minutes following that email I sent you, I sent an additional email strongly suggesting that you take the car to the dyno once you figure this problem out. I su suggested that driving the car and boosting without knowing the A/F is something you need to avoid. This is the end of the emails between you and I about this issue. On Feb 3rd you had time to put the chip in your car and tell me how well it ran and that you were running it hard that day, no detonation either. Look at the email exchange you and I had on Feb 3rd! There were several exchanges back and forth and you were joyed with how the car was running. It wasn’t until the 8th that you emailed about having a problem and with the level of your persistence, it is not easy for me to think that you waited several days to tell me about it. It looks to me that you had 5 days of ‘boosting it hard’ even after I repeatedly told you not to drive it hard until we get some dyno information. Look, I’m really sorry that your car had a problem. What you don’t understand is that even if there were a problem with the ECU program, it would not have caused the head gasket to blow. The only reason I have ever seen a Z32 headgasket blow is due to overheating of the engine or improper assembly causing a head-bolt to back off. The stock head gasket is incredibly durable and is not prone to failure simply due to detonation – especially at your power level. The problem you had was very likely to have been caused by the mechanic work done during the installation of the injectors. Your attitude towards me is very clear and you are not willing to listen to anything I say. I will not be badgered and simply ‘give’ you your money back from some fear that you might go out and ruin my reputation. If you want to post about this on twinturbo.net I wouldn’t be able to stop you anyway – all I have are our email exchanges that will do all of the talking for me. If you would like, I would have no problem in generating a document for you on letterhead which states my professional opinion of what caused the problem with your car. You may be able to use this in court as well as the twinturbo.net responses you got that were parallel to my claim if you choose to hold your mechanic responsible for the losses you suffered, but I do not feel obligated to refund your money on the service. You did not follow the guidelines I reinforced on several occasions both before and after the sale as well as direct emails telling you to go to the dyno. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. If you would like a copy of all of our email exchanges in their entirety I would be happy to provide those to you.
-----Original Message-----
From: M. S. [mailto:serrymm@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:01 AM
To: 'Ash Powers'
Subject: RE: EPROM Programs - Refund
Hi Ash, Wow that’s a long email . I went real quick through your email and it looks like a lot of chronology. After the injector install I drove the car without boosting a single time for a few weeks, because it would run rich as I had bigger injectors with JWT chip for stock injectors .. the shop said it would not hurt if I drive it slow ..the car run fine for weeks while I was waiting for the promised chip for all that time .. When I got your chip, I put it in .. took it for a spin . and I heard that bang (could not understand what it was at the time), the car was not idling smooth anymore.. in the next couple of days I still drove the car, not knowing the head gasket blew already.. the car would still boost. My biggest clue was on the second day, I stopped the car, then tried to crank it, it would not start .. then started with a big white cloud of smoke .. after doing some research, I reached the conclusion that it was a blown headgasket, which explain the auxiliary fan starting to come on as the coolant was seeping through the cylinder…after that I kept adding water to the radiator everyday and drove the car till I got a new engine . I am really amazed at your insistence not to refund my money for the chip I returned .. I guess some people would rather die than give money back. By the way, I am not into law suites and all that crap .. .I could have filed a fraud claim with paypal to get my money .. but never had time to do it ..even writing these emails is a waste of my time and money All I can suggest to you if money is important to you is at least send a chip to me . just make it for stock injectors and forget the whole thing . I’ll just give it to a local SD Z buddy . at least you know your chip for stock injectors works .. That is the best settlement I could offer you, if that arrangement does not work with you, then I would have to go on with what I said in my previous email and bill it on the time I spend on the forum reading and posting . Later MS Mamdouh,
Thankyou for considering the information I provided to you and for your reasonable approach to working with me on this. Not to beat a dead horse here, but my only concerns are that your story here isn’t consistent with what your original emails show. On Feb 3rd you said you installed my chip and ran it hard, and it idled well and ran well. You ran the car prior to sending me the email which chronologically speaking means that you ran the car and noted its performance, and then came to tell me about it. I think since it has been some time now since the incident, your recall on the events and timeline are selective and suggestive of an immediate problem, of which the email chronology does not suggest in any form or another. When a head gasket ‘blows’, it doesn’t make any noise at all. The term ‘blows’ suggests an explosive event, when actually all that happens is the headgasket’s seal is simply breached. The system is completely closed, meaning, when the head gasket fails, it allows pressure to impinge and revert to the coolant jacket. The ECU has a closed-loop system in which it reads from the O2 sensors in order to accurately control the A/F, but this will only occur in idle and cruising conditions. As soon as you start getting into any boost, the system drops out of closed loop A/F control and runs solely on the programmed values of the fuel map. So you see, the only way you would have had a problem with it running lean is if you were boosting it, of which I explicitly stated not to do for the sole fact that the program was not verified to produce safe A/F ratios. The problem I see here is that you view the money you spent as paying for a physical item, whereas I see it as you paying for a service. The three chips I sent to you contained prototype programs for you to test on the dyno and then I would provide more of my time (service) to produce a revised program to cater to your car. The $4 worth of EPROM chips is negligible in the cost of what I told you I would provide for you. The money you paid was to cover the time I spent putting together the three prototype programs, reviewing your dyno information and producing a final-tune program, plus the time spent communicating with you in the process. In all, the $250 you paid was done at a loss specifically for the fact that I would have a 450cc program developed which could be used in future sales to recover my losses on the production and perhaps make a little money as well. 450cc injectors are not common at all and I essentially considered it to be something I would never likely sell again. What I can do, which I think would be an amicable resolution to the problem, is refund you ½ of your money. I do not feel obligated to refund all of your money as I do feel that I deserve compensation for the amount of service I did provide. Rather than getting tied up in specifics of ‘this or that’, I figure we can share the loss equally. Please let me know if this will work for you – I would like to resolve this as fairly as possible and keep you happy in the same respect. -Ash -----Original Message-----
From: M. S. [mailto:serrymm@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:39 PM
To: agpowers@bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: EPROM Programs - Refund dude .. I remember exactly what happened like it was yesterday .. that evening I put the chip in, idled fine .. took it for a spin, then heard a pop .. didn't know what happened, car idling funny... went back home .. next morning ... car would not turn .. it would stop turning as soon as I crank it .. then it started ..went to work .. came back .. aux fan kicked in ..coolant started to get low .. white smoke (steam) would come out of the pipes at idle .. I do lots of research .. I get to the conclusion it was the headgasket that blew ..
It's very simple, your program was off, car run lean cylinder #6 got hot .. boom. The old engine is sitting in my garage, I could see the headgasket looking from the top of the lower plenum with a flash light. By the way, you are trying to use the term prototype to cover your self now .. but you said you could do some easy calculations and get it right on (not a prototype) I am not your guinea pig.. later I would fine tune it for a perfect set up .. that was the plan .. but you were way off...the dyno was was for fine tuning .. not me, being your test experiment Your settlement offer is unacceptable, I paid for a chip, I want a working chip for stock injectors in my possession now, it's the best I can do, since you're so hooked up on your $250 .. I have friends who could use it. Please let me know if you accept, I am loosing my mind and patience dealing with you. I spoke to some local Z buddies .. they all said, small claim court, request $2800 for the engine, $1600 labor, $250 chip and take it from there .. Please let me know by tomorrow so I can put this issue away. MS Mandouh,
None of it is about the money, it’s the principle of the matter. Your emails depict a very clear story of what happened and it is not as you are saying it is now. You are simply looking to blame someone else for your own actions. You were running it hard, which you said you were, and which I told you not to do.. But, If you just want a chip, I’ll send you a stage3 chip. It’s the least I can do to end this dispute. Offer accepted. You have your way and I will send it out tomorrow. Please send me your current address. -Ash
[ ashleypowers.com ]
[ agpowers@bellsouth.net ] Enthusiasts soon understand each other. --W. Irving.
Are you an enthusiast? If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor.
Albert Einstein
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